Cheryl:

"I know that feeling. Years of 12 step meetings helped me learn that if I didn't get what I wanted, like a response, it may mean nothing about me, it may mean they understood and didn't know what to say, if I still need something I might have to figure out a way to get it from someone else, or finally to give it to myself. I've even gotten to the point to be able to rarely use this technique at least with my husband, "I need you to say he's a jerk." My husband says it. That's usually about my ex. 

If you want a response from the group, some day you might want to practice this technique, "Please let me know I'm alright." or "I'm not insane" or "I'll survive." 

Even if you don't get a response to your direct request, it may not be about you. People may not be online who can respond. And then you get the opportunity to write to yourself what you requested from us." 

 

Survivor:
"Could is the same as should.  I thought we were being honest here.:)"

Cheryl:
"No, I consider 'could' a choice, and 'should' someone, or me, trying to tell me what me what to do."

 

Survivor:
"So, we're eating and the 21 year old is talking to a sub about a teacher at the high school and she says, 'Oh he's a molester. He only likes girls.' Every one laughs (remember that I told you I told the bookkeeper about my abuse. Well, she didn't laugh or anything but....she was in the room) so anyway, I felt this strange sensation. Hot, my face got red, a strange feeling all through out my body, I felt mad. My heart started beating really fast and I was nervous and anxious. I just got up and left the room. No goodbye, no 'nice to see you' to the 21 year old, no explanation. I just walked out."

Cheryl:
"I've had a similar situation.  My husband's co-workers were good friends, and he shared our family website so they learned about my incest history and mentioned it to my husband. They were very good about it. Hadn't talked to me about it.  

Went to a party celebrating the sale of the company, and everyone moving on, and at the financial officer's house before going to the restaurant, he made some joke about fathers and incest.

I sat there quietly waiting for the moment to pass. I noticed people started to realize what they'd said and that I was in the room, and they got uncomfortable.

At the restaurant the financial guy apologized very embarrassed. I said I'm fine, and I was.  

In the car on the way home we were giving the AP lady and another a ride home. She's a good friend of my husband. I thought I whispered it to my husband, 'Gary apologized. It was really sweet.'

The AP lady overheard and apologized immediately also.

I know you may not feel you handled the situation well, but I think you did. I think you spontaneously did what you needed to for you and Bravo! 

 

Survivor:
"the boy called her last week and asked her if she told anyone that he raped her..and she was upset that she said no."

Cheryl:
"Please tell her not to 'should' herself about saying no, and point out that she's making progress by choosing to work on the issue, and as she approaches saying no and being blunt with him about issues, she can pat herself on the back for every little hint of progress rather than beat herself up for not 'arriving' and doing it the way she imagines she wants to."

 

Survivor:
"just thinking out loud which is something I do all the time. The advice I need is that I have no idea how to tell her off in a nice way."

Cheryl:
"I don't know if you're willing to do my suggestion, and if you're going to practice standing up for yourself, you may choose to do it anyway while feeling your heart pounding and that inner critic telling you you "shouldn't" be doing this...but I might say something to her like, 'I was just thinking out loud which is something I do all the time. Are you complaining because I do that?'  Say it without accusations.  If she's a pushy lady she'll increase her efforts to put you down and you need to play broken record, 'I don't understand, are you upset because I talk to myself?'  Again, try to say it without accusational tone." 

 

Survivor:
"because he had sex with me during a time when I was not in my right state of mind and he knew that I wasn't."

Cheryl:
"Ughhh...you reminded me of the sexual predator who took advantage of my friend in the survivor's program when she made a lame attempt at suicide, and was on sleeping pills. She didn't feel violated.

Reminds me of the worse sexual predator in our program, and my moment with him that I think you'll appreciate.  This predator had tried to have a friendly relationship with me. I wasn't interested.

My new boyfriend and I were at the ACOA dance when the DJ announced what he called the snow dance. He picks a guy, who picks a girl to dance with him, she can't say no, and on and on.

The DJ picked the predator.I'm sitting on my boyfriend's lap and whispered to him, 'Watch, he's going to ask me.' My boyfriend, from another recovery program said assuredly, 'No he's not!'  Privately I thought, 'Yes he is. It's his perfect moment - he thinks I can't say no.'

Sure enuf he did. I said no.

The DJ laughed and said, 'You can't say no!'

I said no again.

The audience, puzzled, joins in, 'You can't say no!'

I said no again. He went to find another partner."

 

Survivor:
"You are an inspiration to those of us that can't say no.  Thank you."

Cheryl:
"I was one of those people. 9 months of therapy, 3 years of ACOA survivor meetings, marathon rage/grief self-help workshops, tons of reading, writing...it used to be something I had to work at to listen to my instinct, and have the words come out of my mouth. After enuf recovery, I remember the realization one day that I was listening to my instincts, and saying the appropriate words automatically. It was a Hallelujah moment."

 

Survivor:
"I know how you feel when you puke.  I puked all growing up and i dry heave"

Cheryl:
"I threw up a lot growing up. I wrote a poem about it but it's very graphic and I don't feel the need to share it here.

But I did want to share that every time I was pregnant - 4xs - I was sick as a dog for 5 months. First one I was 5'5" 115 lbs, and lost 6 lbs. I looked like a scarecrow. I had an excellent ob for the 1st 2. He just kept an eye on me.

My 3rd I was working for a b(^)% who I didn't want to tell I was pregnant. I would sneak up to employee restroom to go in large handicapped bathroom to vomit 8xs a day. She never knew.

I had a paternalistic jerk for an ob for my 3rd and 4th.  He didn't believe I was ill, was mad I was losing weight, I didn't show signs of dehydration.  Of course I didn't. I was well trained to hide what was going on, vomit when I needed to, eat drink and vomit again when I couldn't keep it down.

My water broke and he didn't believe me. It was a subtle leak, and I didn't let him know for hours cuz I sensed he wouldn't believe me. The first test showed it hadn't broken. I can still see the look on the nurse's face. She believed me and on her own took the test to another microscope and it was positive.

The day after my baby was born that doc came to my bed to wrap up so to speak. He didn't say a word to me about my baby being sick. I said, "How come she has pneumonia?" He looked stricken. He didn't know she had pneumonia.  I could see the fear on his face. My water had been broken, and infection had set in cuz of the length of time before labor and delivery.

I was such an idiot I went to that guy for the 4th baby. A year after that he'd suddenly abandoned his practice. *hint hint* to me that he was troubled.

I'm better about taking care of myself these days."

 

Survivor:
"but the lack of family still hurts, sometimes i think i want to go home but i don't know where that is."

Cheryl:
"When I cut off ties, I thought I was going to die. I walked a shell of a person for several years.  Life started to get better. My birthday became my birthday after some years - instead of my twin's and my birthday.  I felt so homeless on holidays for a long time. Not anymore.  Hang in there til it gets better."

 

Cheryl:
"God wants you to heal more than he wants you to forgive and he's big enuf to handle dealing with them so you don't have to. Take care of yourself."

 

Survivor:
"your not alone in being afraid of the dark.  I have to sleep with my tv on or I will freak out.

Cheryl:
"I like new age music down very low so it barely captures my subconscious (otherwise my subconscious seems to dip in to flashbacks instantly forgotten that startle me awake), and it has to be light enuf so I can open my eyes and be reassured there's no one in my room that doesn't belong there. I like that my husband snores cuz I can tell who's beside me, and his snoring soothes me to sleep."

 

Survivor:
"Though it hurts the way it was done, not a word said, like I no longer exist. Well, if I don't learn from her then there is no hope for me!"

Cheryl:
"When I first attended Vegas ACOA Survivors meetings a woman I'll call L was in charge of them. As time rolled on I created a couple of meetings like Healing Your Sexual Self. She didn't like that I got along with people, and created meetings...

I wasn't comfortable dealing with her anymore and stepped down as librarian in her meeting. She informed me I wouldn't be allowed to step down, that they'd have to vote on whether I could step down. I don't think so.

She was secretary on the board of the local ACOA, and took advantage of the position to write 3 pages on me and how I was so controlling...

I ignored her and and felt anguish over the whole thing.

A year later the meetings I was 'leading' were doing fine and a woman came up to me, 'You are NOTHING like L said you were?!?'

I didn't know that all this time L receives all calls for meetings and she would tell frightened survivors new to the program how controlling and manipulative I was and tell them not to go to my meetings.

*shaking my head*

Another couple of years and she'd disappeared, the president of that board (who was her boyfriend) and I managed to maintain our friendship...

I learned deeply thru that the recovery guideline, 'It's not my business what others think of me'. I learned my life could succeed no matter the difficult people in my life, or the terrible things they think of me."

 

Survivor:
"Do you feel as if God was punishing you, or like he can't exist, 'cause if he did you would have never been hurt as a child, or do you feel as if God was trying to teach you something, or like this was all just part of his "plan" for you...?" 

Cheryl:
"I was raised Protestant, church every Sunday, my mother won sweetheart of her church. My father never attended. He considered himself Agnostic. I've shared that my mother knew her husband was raping daughters and granddaughters, and demanded loyalty and secrets be kept.

When I chose to study Catholicism after 5 years married, I didn't expect the spiritual fireworks I received. It was a wonderful experience.  I eventually led the parish folk group, became a high school youth minister.  

During my breakdown remembering I had an epiphany and remember marveling, "You really are there!"  For me "God" helped me creatively survive thru the abuse. 

Since then I am triggered by Protestant evangelizing or music. I'm triggered by Lawrence Welk (I'm feeling threatened just thinking about it) my mother's favorite program.  My heart speeds up, my head muddles, my insides sharply jump like when you're sleeping and suddenly imagine a snake bites you and your body jerks.

Years later in recovery program there were 4 women I loved and trusted. They were starting a coven, and asked me to join them. I did. I didn't understand wicca for many months, just trusting these women.  Eventually I understood wicca intuitively and have incorporated it in to my spirituality.  I call myself Wiccan Catholic. Others may have a hard time understanding how I can incorporate both in to my spirituality. It's not up to them to live my life."

 

 

Survivor:
"You see, her body physically reacted during the abuse.  This made her abuser tell her that she really did want it.  This of course, has been very confusing, humiliating, etc.  I know that the body is supposed to react, but how do you explain and help her see that this was not her fault?  Nor does it mean she wanted it." 

Cheryl:
"I don't have memories of the actual abuse.

I know that your words are true - the body is supposed to react, it wasn't her fault, it doesn't mean she wanted it.

I can only share my experience.

I didn't have an orgasm for 5 years with my 1st husband. I could have an orgasm masturbating.  Married 5 years, staying the night in a seedy Travelodge in Morro Bay, CA, I was on top, I had my first orgasm with my husband. I can remember how thrilled he was. I've not had a problem since then, and became multi orgasmic.

Somehow I've separated my abuse from my intimate trusting relationship.  I enjoy my body's reaction. 

Vegas survivor meetings of Healing Your Sexual Self are a large part of my sexual recovery, and building a satisfying sexual relationship with my 2nd husband after my breakdown remembering.

With therapy, or private work, hopefully some day she'll take back and own her body's reactions as enjoyable and rightfully hers, not to be left in the past as her abuser's property.

Mmmmm...what this is reminding me of is working in our selfhelp marathon rage/grief workshops on the incident when I was walking in to my father's arms so he could teach me to dance for the prom. Even now, my body's beginning to stress thinking of that. I've always gone blank on everything after walking towards his open arms. I don't believe anything happened except a dance, but I felt sheer terror to be walking towards his open arms.

I "put" him in an empty chair and screamed out my anger at him and asserted that the joy of dancing is MINE.  After some years I was better about slow dancing with anyone other than my intimate relationship.

One time out with a best friend in Vegas an older gentleman wearing a tshirt with "Dancing Fool" eyed me, asked for a dance, and his professional dance talents helped me look like a pro. He whispered in my ear, "You are a WONDERFUL dancer."  That inspired me, of course, to again twirl when he told me.  My left hand twirled around, planted and broke off a fake acrylic nail in his right temple.  Stunned and bleeding a little, we stopped dancing and he avoided me the rest of the night.

*rueful chuckle* Such is my life."

Survivor:
One problem I have always had is that I've never known how to just kiss a guy without thinking that it was supposed to lead to sex. 

Cheryl:
I remember reading long ago that an abuse victim doesn't tolerate flirting well cuz of their history, and feeling like they can't say no.

After some years in recovery, an ugly divorce, finding happiness with my new boyfriend, I must have been sending off happiness clues.  All of a sudden I was getting flirting signals from men around me. The difference was I didn't feel the need to play dumb, and I didn't feel threatened.

One of the most fun incidents was standing in line to pay for a traffic tkt. The guy behind me said, "I want to get to know you better." I said, "What did you say?" He repeated it.

The flirting went on for some time. I realized I was feeling safe and practicing flirting, cuz I was safely committed to my current relationship.

He spoke in an accent. I asked, "What is that accent?" He replied he was (I've forgotten exactly) born in another country, but raised in France. I asked, "How many languages do you speak?" He replied, "5." Then he leaned
closer with good humor, "But with you I'd speak 7 languages." I giggled delighted.  He was disappointed I was already taken. I was happy to feel safe and flirt, feeling desireable.

Survivor:
Friends who know me before remembering, and know what I've been thru, never mention my incest history or what hell I went thru remembering.

05/05/2001 I have spent many hours at the therapist dealing with how people never acknowledge the elephant.  What I've learned is that people see the elephant and realize how easily it could be in their living room and because of the realization they will not talk about it. 
In the case of my son's death I feel like the elephant is an angel and of course people will not mention seeing angels. 
Imagine if sometime just having someone say I am sorry you have had an elephant living in your house for so long let me give you a hug, how it would touch your heart and feel good.  But then again no one sees us because the elephant is so big they can't see around or past it.
Linda

 

Cheryl:
I rarely go to the library these days, but accompanied my daughter and picked up a book Imagine what America could be in the 21st Century, written by a variety of authors.

John Bradshaw says 1 out of 7 people are coming out about being sexually abused. That brought home to me again that being able to talk about this issue makes me a minority.

Another author wrote,

"The fact that we can be instantly anywhere, see anyone, and be cared for from a distance means that we will encounter human needs that are independent of culture. To live in such a world, we will need a greater ability to communicate innermost desires and subtleties of observation and feeling.

Most of us were not taught how to communicate our moods, reactions, expectations, and needs in a clear and nonviolent manner. Until we can express ourselves, we lack the primary tools of relationship. Very decrepit people in nursing homes can now communicate and converse with family members by e-mail -- a reassuring collapse of distance. But lack of expressive skill often prevents the satisfaction of shared intimacy."

Recovery taught me what most people haven't learned. I'm very grateful for the experience of intimacy with myself and others since being in recovery.

 

 

Survivor:
Why can't people understand that, and understand the true motives behind our speaking out?  When you attempt to talk about this, most people's reactions are along the lines of, "oh, she's in such pain, she just wants to lash out at her
family, or "his" family. 

"If I don't tell this story in the most detailed, intimate way possible then I have wasted my talent. This story matters."  "...It may not be a cure, but it's a truth." 
Jennie Nash

"The truth being everything."
John Begert

 

8/2001 To a Testifying Survivor

Having testified years ago, and my recent experience with jury duty, I have
a few suggestions.

Don't try to figure out what the defense attorney is getting at when he cross-examines you.  Don't worry about what you suspect, like he's trying to discredit you.  Let go of feeling like you need to control what goes on. You only need to answer simply and truthfully. Let the prosecutor take care of you by wrangling with whatever the defense attorney does.

Having been in court multiple times with my ex, and 2nd husband's exwifefromhell, I use a short meditation to keep me calm. I breathe in thinking the word peace, and breathe out thinking the word fear and imagine all the fear escaping thruout all the pores of my body.  I let go of any expectations of the result.  I reassure myself that no matter what happens, how it turns out, I'll be able to handle it.

Sometimes it helps to think about the worst scenario.  Oprah's Dr Phil did that for her when she faced court. Ask yourself what is the worst that could happen? The defense attny paints you as something you aren't?  So what. You and we know better.  You can leave that courtroom, and share your pain with supportive friends, family, and us.  He doesn't get prosecuted? Ok, you may have little wins by at least have made his life a bit of hell in court.

Time wounds all heels. 

If he's not prosecuted, he'll get his some day.  You can go home holding your head high (even if it takes awhile for you to sort thru unhappy feelings about the ordeal) that you did your best, and perhaps protected a victim in the future from being perpetrated by him.

No matter what happens, you're quite a lady!

 

Survivor:
"Every now and then I read about joining an incest (that word makes me sick........) group. How did you find one in your area?  I have looked on the computer and find groups that are out of state.  Phone book isn't much help. Just wondering because I want to join one. Perhaps like, AA or"

Cheryl:
"Altho regular ACOA groups aren't just for survivors, they are an excellent way to plug in to the local 12 step culture.  Look in yellow or white pages under ACA, ACOA, or Adult Children.  Call local recovery hospitals and ask if they know of local ACOA or survivor groups.  Check your newspaper when it's listing community meetings.

Search online for ACOA meetings: